Well hello there!

WIP : YUMA DEV 4 SPAWN FIX

More or less everything you want to know about mapping for WildWest.

Moderators: Ringo, wwbiteme, zivs

gunte

Post by gunte » Sun Feb 07, 2010 7:42 pm

great work :-)..i look at it monday - now i'm going to play :)

gunte

Post by gunte » Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:38 am

so now its in the rotation :)

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Ringo
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Post by Ringo » Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:47 pm

well lets see what happens ;)
WIP : Wildwest ET
WIP : Wildwest_Radar
WIP : Wildwest_Sanmiguel
WIP : Wildwest_Yuma
WIP : Wildwest Jailbreak
WIP : Wildwest_Muerte
WIP : Wildwest_Abby

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Ringo
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Post by Ringo » Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:21 pm

picking up the mapping bit again ;)

any futher suggestions to yuma ?
WIP : Wildwest ET
WIP : Wildwest_Radar
WIP : Wildwest_Sanmiguel
WIP : Wildwest_Yuma
WIP : Wildwest Jailbreak
WIP : Wildwest_Muerte
WIP : Wildwest_Abby

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El Stupido
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Post by El Stupido » Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:59 pm

Hi Ringo! Glad to hear your in the map mode again!

Personally, I'd like to see the tunnel system reactivated. It's pretty rough going for the bandits to get across the open ground from the flag to the sally port or train door. Just a suggestion.. what do the rest of ya varmints think?

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Post by Ringo » Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:03 pm

El Stupido wrote:Hi Ringo! Glad to hear your in the map mode again!

Personally, I'd like to see the tunnel system reactivated. It's pretty rough going for the bandits to get across the open ground from the flag to the sally port or train door. Just a suggestion.. what do the rest of ya varmints think?
well the flags are next point of interest , same goes for reducing the size once more ..
WIP : Wildwest ET
WIP : Wildwest_Radar
WIP : Wildwest_Sanmiguel
WIP : Wildwest_Yuma
WIP : Wildwest Jailbreak
WIP : Wildwest_Muerte
WIP : Wildwest_Abby

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Post by shLep » Sun May 02, 2010 8:21 pm

After playing Rio (I just commented on it), I loaded up this map.
I see a lot of similar issues that I had with Rio in Yuma. And again I didn't play it with others, or even as both sides. This is purely a first impressions list.

Layout:
- WAY too big of a map. Whether its a lack of details or not, there are certain areas that take forever to walk through, just to find out its a dead end or serves no purpose.
- Overall, too many areas that serve no purpose.

Buildings:
- Need some design help, everything is VERY blocky. look to the wildwest_town map for instruction on creating realistic buildings.
- The type of texture for each building should be reflected in its shape. If its a dirt/plaster/mud texture, curved edges and corners goes a long way. If its wood, generally walls should not be very thick, etc.
- Each building/route should have a purpose (towards winning the game primarily), while also being "functional" in its real world design secondly.
- If there is no reason to enter room A, don't make room A accessible.

Texturing:
- Textures are a bit bland and repititive after awhile. You might try adding new textures that have dirt line half way up the wall. Giving the buildings character and telling a story.
- Use different textures for doors that can open, are destructible, or are locked. This helps the player subconsciously understand why it is that a door that looks like it can open, is now only destructible.

Terrain:
- This map needs terrain badly for all the dirt surfaces, even a gentle terrain of mounds would spice things up. With all your walls, its a great chance to add some detail in by making the dirt rise up (or down) against most walls.

Random Stuff:
- Too many empty Jail cells that really don't add anything to the map. (may consider removing an entire block of jail cells, or otherwise re-purpose them.
- Too many destructible doors/gates. Don't overdue it.
- Needs light fixtures, even though its a day map, it lends to the illusion of a real place at least.
- Why is everything fullbright? Get some light compiling in here!
- I think overall there should be more ware and tare in the buildings.

Overall, my advice is to re-think what will this map can offer that is new/fun/interesting, etc.
It cant just be to blow up some gates, shoot some guy and get outta there. Perhaps since its a Prison, focus on creating unique gun battle "scenes" throughout the "secured" Prison areas.
This way, progress can be measured by how many secured areas that bandits move up through - and then finally when they reach the end, BAM - kill the informant.

This map could safely be shrunk in half IMO, after refining the gameplay elements. I would probably cut off almost all of the sprawling landscape outside and focus on creating a myriad of unique and fun gun battles inside the prison.
Let me know if you need a hand with anything.

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Post by Ringo » Sun May 02, 2010 9:24 pm

lol , thanks for the comments shlep ..

i created this map as a scale model to the real thing ( if u read the entire post)

the objective still has to be changed , so does the size ..

it is a play thing .. and if i look @ town or any other map ... these maps are all finished .. but yet massively fps gorbles

as for the blocking thing and design, everything is not finished ... if u had read the posts ..

as for yuma , i cant be bothered in detailing and reducing it if its unplayable .. which is the case .. so @ first the map should be exiting and not very designish like ..

everything can be turned into models // but whats the use if the map sucks ?
WIP : Wildwest ET
WIP : Wildwest_Radar
WIP : Wildwest_Sanmiguel
WIP : Wildwest_Yuma
WIP : Wildwest Jailbreak
WIP : Wildwest_Muerte
WIP : Wildwest_Abby

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Post by shLep » Mon May 03, 2010 1:44 am

I did read this entire thread... and i didn't see any mention of it being "to scale".
And I know its unfinished - I was just giving my first impressions. no worries.

I had great FPS on the map.. I don't understand what you mean by it not being playable.
Plus with all of those high walls, you could easily make use of hint brushes.

Anyways, reducing the size would make it instantly playable as well.

Like I said, let me know if you need anything.

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Post by Ringo » Mon May 03, 2010 12:23 pm

shLep wrote:I did read this entire thread... and i didn't see any mention of it being "to scale".
And I know its unfinished - I was just giving my first impressions. no worries.

I had great FPS on the map.. I don't understand what you mean by it not being playable.
Plus with all of those high walls, you could easily make use of hint brushes.

Anyways, reducing the size would make it instantly playable as well.

Like I said, let me know if you need anything.
- im not worried , im stating the map is unplayable given the objectives , run time and fun

the gameplay is more important then the level of detail .. detail is fun for the first time but in a heat of the battle u do not look @ how beautifull things look .. as stated before.. , everyone can comment and give ideas on yuma , that was my point .. getting more people interested in mapping and telling how the story of their hint or suggestion is implemented within the map ;)

i thought of an idea since the map was so massive.. but in most cases .. the more objectives the harder the map gets and people will vote it away .. or the long walks people often will skip the map aswell

thats my first concern .. making the map fun and playable ... in current situation the map is great fun for snipers but any other means its just plain boring .. this is due to size ... no matter what objective ..
WIP : Wildwest ET
WIP : Wildwest_Radar
WIP : Wildwest_Sanmiguel
WIP : Wildwest_Yuma
WIP : Wildwest Jailbreak
WIP : Wildwest_Muerte
WIP : Wildwest_Abby

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Post by B@ND!TO » Mon May 03, 2010 7:10 pm

Im aggree with Ringo, the first is the gameplay and the detail is secondairy!!!

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Post by Ringo » Mon May 03, 2010 9:40 pm

if u have a fine looking map but the objectives are not well thought of.., the map will be pulled out of rotation ..because of lack of people wanting to blow things .. or capture is impossible..

too many objectives will bore players easily .. it has to be a perfect mix ..in my oppinion the following maps are fine looking , but hideous to play

- Train
- Mountain
- El Paso

CTF ,

Hacienda ,
boulderdash, the last flag is just too far away, leaving it timeless by points
WIP : Wildwest ET
WIP : Wildwest_Radar
WIP : Wildwest_Sanmiguel
WIP : Wildwest_Yuma
WIP : Wildwest Jailbreak
WIP : Wildwest_Muerte
WIP : Wildwest_Abby

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shLep
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Post by shLep » Thu May 06, 2010 5:29 pm

Ouch, those maps are hideous to play? I think that's being a bit dramatic. You probably just don't know them as well.
But since you bring it up, I'll work on making El Paso less hideous to play, just for you buddy!
;)

And I'm pretty sure I stressed playability (or fun factor) over adding detail in my posts above.
It's a subject I'm all too familiar with.

In fact the latest tips I've heard on this subject (straight from level designers for UT3), is to create a fun map as follows:
- ignore creating initial blue prints
- start laying out your map for specific gameplay elements you know you want (ignore themes and details)
- focus purely on enhancing the enjoyment of executing these elements
- begin blueprinting your map on paper, blending in your gameplay elements into a theme you know you wanted.

And from there refine, rinse and repeat, etc.

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Post by zivs » Thu May 06, 2010 6:29 pm

Well, the Train map indeed is quite unplayable no matter how many and how good players are on server - it's just ... well, not really fun.

The rest of mentioned maps (like El Paso) have some FPS/lagging issues which is why Paso is not played. And mountain is just way too big and all that vertical advancement in it (if I remember correctly) plus the chance to get lost in it is pain in the ass even if there would be 20 or more players on server.

P.S.
I feel that you both (Ringo and shLep) are obviously not going to be friends here ... :mrgreen:

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Post by El Stupido » Fri May 07, 2010 2:04 am

Except for the train/exit area of El Paso, I don't see any other places with FPS issues. I have never understood why some people don't like it? Is it the multiple miner objectives, or is it just unfamiliar to some since it has not been in rotation on euro server?

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