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Wild West El Rio beta 2 feedback thread

More or less everything you want to know about mapping for WildWest.

Moderators: Ringo, wwbiteme, zivs

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El Stupido
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Post by El Stupido » Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:21 am

I found the tribute to your Dad the other night. Pretty cool!

SangrelX
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Post by SangrelX » Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:15 am

thanks stupido,

sadly for a man who did not smoke or drink it was cancer that got him.

i figured it would be nice to do something that would last a long time for him. hence the reason that cabin is called Father Jerry's Cabin

and the cabin at the bandit spawn is called JW's Cabin

my name is Jonathan Walter Garber his name was Jerry Walter Garber - so JW and Father Jerry seemed fitting.

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El Dragon
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Post by El Dragon » Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:37 pm

I'm off for the weekend (have a big sci fi convention in Boston I'm vending at) but some homework for folks.

Hunt for glitches (not many in second version but there may be one still)

Explore the map (where would be good locations for 5-6 flags for a CTF varient, are the current spawns good or should they be different for a CTF/TDM game mode?

@SangrelX I'm assuming the super bright lighting is just for quick compiling. Will you be doing more creative lighting for final version? If not, I'd recomend either a different shade or texture for interior of buildings as it's hard to see window openings in several of them now.

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zippy
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Post by zippy » Thu Jan 14, 2010 3:17 pm

I like the map. :)

however, im mapping illiterate; so, other than upping the max fps in the console, is there any other way to help w/ the fps drop issue near the bank/bandit spawn area? some of us are getting a pretty good drop, some below 30.

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Huche_de_Vent
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Post by Huche_de_Vent » Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:22 pm

Re: Zippy's comment, I've noticed the fps drops occur when looking in certain directions... perhaps even at specific buildings or textures? Like him though, I'm getting rates that vary 2 to 1. (100 or 100+ for most, jumps around a bunch, then these bad spots are 40 or 30)

Re: Dragon comment: Another comment on the current lighting, Sangrel, should you decide not to do a subtle lighting. At least on my screen the yellow chat text is very easy to miss, especially when down in the town (ground texture especially). When it's a vsay it's easy because I hear it, but many a typed chat has slipped by me unnoticed. :roll:
/PF/Huche
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zippy
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Post by zippy » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:32 pm

yeah, it seems whenever i am at the far end of the map w/ the bank directly at my back and i look toward the bandit spawn (large red brick building across the street from the bank), my fps drops, even when i just scan my view back and forth it noticeably slows. Sorry i'm so mapping incompetent, otherwise i could be of more help :(

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Post by SangrelX » Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:46 am

hrm i guess my video card is to powerful -- i still get a fairly solid 90fps

ill have to look around and see about tweaking the map to fix any fps drops



ADDED

found the framedrop spots, and I know why LOL -- its drawing the entire MAP even areas you cannot see when your at the back spots of the map itself

it was drawing the entire underground too- I managed to hint brush the underground enough to Block it from being drawn when above ground but when your underground and though it draws underground AND above ground still get good FPS down there but im not totally understanding how Hint Brushes work because its not working how i planned

I thought that hint brushes work by if the player can see the hint brush it wil draw whats behind it, and when the hint brush is not visible anything behind it is not drawn

im confused lol

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El Dragon
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Post by El Dragon » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:32 am

@ Hunch (and others)

a nifty fps debug tip to gather info for the mappers

type /cg_drawfps 1 (turns on fps ratings under team overlay)

type /cg_lagometer 1 (turns on the lago meter, also a useful tool)

type /bind [KEY] "screenshotjpeg" (replace [KEY] with the key you want to take screenshots with)

Now with these items turned on find the spots that have the serious FPS drop and take a picture. If it's not just one spot move about and take a few. Check is it only facing one direction or general?

Post your results and comments here for the mapper to look at (he may not even be aware of it)

These tips have helped find fps issues on older maps. Sadly some we never did figure out why (near train on santa cruz for example)

SangrelX
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Post by SangrelX » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:43 am

i learned part of my problem with the hint brushes was I was creating brushes with the Entire brush marked as Hint it turns out when you lay hints you must use only 1 face of the brush as a hint and the rest as a skip face

ill study ww_town some to attempt to understand more about laying hints

I have a funny feeling the reason town works so well is because its designed with tall buildings that block the view of other sections of the map which allows further ease of placing hint brushes lol

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Huche_de_Vent
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Post by Huche_de_Vent » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:24 am

Thanks for the push, Dragon. I've been in a position to scrnshot what I"m seeing many times but just haven't done so (run with fps and lago on all the time). My bad, I'll get some next time I'm on.

@ Sangrel: good point about the tall buildings in town. At the spot zippy refers to at Elrio's bank, if you look towards cowboys you can see the dam and building/far hill beyond it... the entire map length in other words. If I recall correctly, fps drops are worse looking from up town towards boat... for the most part anyway.

Anywho, I'll get some more info. Screenies forthcoming...
/PF/Huche
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"I can tell at sight a Mauser rifle from a javelin."

gunte

Post by gunte » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:28 am

the only place in town takes my fps down to 20 is if i standing/running on the bridge and look directly into at the saloon. It has been that way with all my graphic cards/PCs. Otherwise i have a fps on 70 - 100.

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zivs
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Post by zivs » Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:12 pm

Just a quick idea to solve even for 1% the FPS issues - maybe it's possible to make building names in [custom] textures, not made out of details? Also the key wall in one of the offices where bandits run through as they spawn (next to gallows)?

I don't even have idea why, but I feel that those things could also eat some of FPS for low-spec computers (which are not rare in this game community)

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Huche_de_Vent
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Post by Huche_de_Vent » Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:50 am

OK, Sangrel and gang, here are some screenies showing some fps spots. The images are large so I won't post them, instead just links. FYI this machine, while no demon, is capable on most maps of 80, 90, and over 100 in many instances.

I too wonder about Zivs point regarding building name letters causing drops... based on my testing they could be a factor (though probably not the only one).

Back of town, pan side to side [image]
Back of town, up and down [image]
From church, small 4 corner pattern [image]
From church, pan streets [image]
From coyote point, multi view [image]

Especially so form coyote point, notice how just a slight pan from the black smith side of the street to the sables side causes a big drop. Interesting note, the Saloon label letters had just come into view in this particular example.

Hope this is helpful info. :wink:
/PF/Huche
aka gravedigger


"I can tell at sight a Mauser rifle from a javelin."

SangrelX
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Post by SangrelX » Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:36 am

working on hint brushing, but im still no good at it -- I can load the PRT file into GTK and see all the leafs that touch/draw from eachother and there are a LOT

i am definetly no good at placing hint brushes to keep all this stuff from being drawn from the areas players are in


basically im stuck trying to make the game stop drawing stuff that the player is not supposed to have drawn from where they currently stand.

because near the back end of the map the game is drawing everything from back to front of the map causing the frames to drop even though you cant actually See the part of the map in game your game is still drawing all the parts.

its extremely hard to understand where to place the hint brushes thats for sure.

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Ringo
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Post by Ringo » Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:51 am

zivs wrote:Just a quick idea to solve even for 1% the FPS issues - maybe it's possible to make building names in [custom] textures, not made out of details? Also the key wall in one of the offices where bandits run through as they spawn (next to gallows)?

I don't even have idea why, but I feel that those things could also eat some of FPS for low-spec computers (which are not rare in this game community)
does that mean the apprentice has overcome the master ? :P

HEHE
WIP : Wildwest ET
WIP : Wildwest_Radar
WIP : Wildwest_Sanmiguel
WIP : Wildwest_Yuma
WIP : Wildwest Jailbreak
WIP : Wildwest_Muerte
WIP : Wildwest_Abby

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