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Returning...

More or less everything you want to know about mapping for WildWest.

Moderators: Ringo, wwbiteme, zivs

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shLep
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Returning...

Post by shLep » Sat May 01, 2010 4:22 pm

So, I'm downloading everything I need (I hope) to return to some WildWest mapping. :)

Its been a LONG time, so while I am cringing at the learning curve I'll have to rehash, I'm excited at the same rate.
Being swept up in the onslaught of never ending new engines has taken its toll on me. I remember being pretty confident with id tech 3 mapping and I want it back!
From a designers point of view, I've come to the decision that it truly does not matter if its got all the bells and whistles (latest and greatest tech) - what matters is if its fun to play.
So that's my overall goal this time around, to make enjoyable maps.

First on my to do list:
- El Paso: Fix the strange FPS spike near trains and a few other minor bugs (suggestions anyone?)
- Review a few old/unfinished/other game maps and consider converting to WW
- Start a New map (details to be disclosed later!)

But prior to, hours and hours of refresher tutorials and dev setup. booo!

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Re: Returning...

Post by El Poncho » Sat May 01, 2010 6:57 pm

shLep wrote:But prior to, hours and hours of refresher tutorials and dev setup. booo!
If you're able to find some good refresher tutorials that aren't broken links let me know. I've also recently got the itch to return to mapping but I'm finding that I pretty much forgot everything about radiant and now am trying to dig through tons of broken tutorial links. The Tram design forums seem to still be functioning, so that's where I've been doing some digging.

In fact, didn't you have a tutorial site at one time? :D
-Prior to moving to the Wild West, I was called Bonesetter and had a cool sig like this:
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Post by zivs » Sat May 01, 2010 10:45 pm

Nice to hear that You're returning to mapping! 8) Maybe you could be available for some discussions over irc.quakenet.org #wildwest sometimes? :) You know ... just to chat this and that about mapping for WW? :)

With El Paso (at least for me) the only problem is the terrible FPS (Athlon X2 64, 3GB DDR2, GF8800GT gets only around 20-40 FPS on that map no matter where I'm standing and where looking) :?

P.S.
Maybe teaming up with Ringo (to finish Yuma) or SangrelX (to finish El Rio) would be possible? Both maps have great potential and seem to be fit for Sunday massacres, just that few minor fixes (besides detail adding) need to be added for full satisfaction .. :)

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Re: Returning...

Post by shLep » Sun May 02, 2010 1:39 am

I do still have a tutorial site, and luckily i mirrored most of the notes I came across back then... that's been useful.
But even still, I'm also coming across broken links. :(
I'll be updating my site once I get my head wrapped around it all again.

Does anyone have the "Heightmap In, Terrain Out" tutorial by TanyaCheex? I recall that being a vital lesson in EasyGen.
So far no dice in finding any tutorials by her. will keep looking.

Also, what is a valid Tram forum URL? The only one i can see is empty, but maybe i need to re-register?

And Zivs, I'll have to get IRC installed again... :)

I didnt realize El Paso had FPS issues in more than one spot. Your specs are close to, if not better than mine (Athlon64 3500+, 4GB DDR2, Geforce GTS 250) - your FPS should not be that low..
Anyone else have that issue with El Paso? In any case, it must come down then... and I got some ideas. ;)

I'm not familiar with the other 2 maps you mentioned, but I'll be sure to check them out soon.
I just installed my old el paso dev pack and successfully loaded everything in Radiant!

Now for some (hours of) Radiant refresher tutorials!

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Post by El Poncho » Sun May 02, 2010 3:43 am

Here's the link to that easygen tutorial by TanyaCheex, I found a working link somewhere else online for it:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/phuckmeoff ... r/tut/tut/

The other one that I know of that is a little more detailed and still on the web is Planet Pointy's:
http://www.planetpointy.co.uk/editing/t ... gen1.shtml

As far as Tram Desing goes, you have the correct link there. I think you just have to redo your login password information. Something that happened when he switched the forums over I think. I don't believe it's public, so you have to log in too see the threads. Still works for me...
:roll:

A few other useful tutorials that I've come across that are still online:
http://www.surfacegroup.org/tutorials/
http://www.nibsworld.com/rtcw/index.shtml

Do you know of any good tutorials that explain how to add brushes to terrain? For example, putting a tunnel through a mountain side? I can't remember and I know for a fact that messing with terrain=bad usually.
-Prior to moving to the Wild West, I was called Bonesetter and had a cool sig like this:
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Post by shLep » Sun May 02, 2010 5:21 pm

Thanks for the links.
That TanyaCheex one isn't the same one unfortunately, but it will help for sure.

I don't know my old tram log in, and every time i register for a new account there, it never sends the activation email.. so I'm locked out I guess.
If its an active forum, could you do me a favor and alert tunnelram to this? I'd like to get in there!

I don't recall any specific tutorials on that, but basically you need to do the following.
- never use CSG subtract
- copy down all the settings of your terrain entity in Radiant, and un-group it (move the entire terrain to worldbrush).
- from there you can delete individual triangle pieces of the terrain (but refrain from CSG subtracting pieces of the terrain even)
- avoid intersecting world brushes with terrain, but due to the point above, this cant be helped sometimes.
- key is, each point (vertex) of a terrain triangle needs to line up on a grid exactly (snapped).
- once this is done, select all pieces of your terrain (filter out everything else in your map, and press I to select all).
- convert the terrain pieces back to an entity using the settings you saved above
- finished. terrain with holes in it.

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Post by El Poncho » Sun May 02, 2010 9:35 pm

Thanks for the info.

The Tram Design forums still work, but I don't know that I'll call it very active if you know what I mean. But at least it's searchable and a lot of the good posts and things are all there, of course most of the tutorials and links are broken though. I'll send Tunnelram a PM and hopefully he can get your account straightened out.

When you refer to copying down all of my settings of my terrain entity, you're referring to hitting "n" and reading them from there?
-Prior to moving to the Wild West, I was called Bonesetter and had a cool sig like this:
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Post by shLep » Mon May 03, 2010 1:26 am

Yep.
I cant remember the entity type, but you'll need that along with anything else it says.

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Post by El Poncho » Mon May 03, 2010 2:25 am

Does a guy need to have all of the terrain selected? or just one brush?

All I get for info is:
classname func_group
terrain 1
layers 6
shader myshader/terrain
alphamap myalphamap.pcx
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Re: Returning...

Post by Ringo » Mon May 03, 2010 12:31 pm

shLep wrote:So, I'm downloading everything I need (I hope) to return to some WildWest mapping. :)

Its been a LONG time, so while I am cringing at the learning curve I'll have to rehash, I'm excited at the same rate.
Being swept up in the onslaught of never ending new engines has taken its toll on me. I remember being pretty confident with id tech 3 mapping and I want it back!
From a designers point of view, I've come to the decision that it truly does not matter if its got all the bells and whistles (latest and greatest tech) - what matters is if its fun to play.
So that's my overall goal this time around, to make enjoyable maps.

First on my to do list:
- El Paso: Fix the strange FPS spike near trains and a few other minor bugs (suggestions anyone?)
- Review a few old/unfinished/other game maps and consider converting to WW
- Start a New map (details to be disclosed later!)

But prior to, hours and hours of refresher tutorials and dev setup. booo!
ELPASO :
do fix the objectives aswell .. since its a hassle to do all of them :) maybe some flags)
- the fps spike is probably the smoke of the train ..
- textures maybe less bright ., compared to other maps ( hacie, town, )
- some fun editions , falling hangmen etc ..
( ill run through it later)
WIP : Wildwest ET
WIP : Wildwest_Radar
WIP : Wildwest_Sanmiguel
WIP : Wildwest_Yuma
WIP : Wildwest Jailbreak
WIP : Wildwest_Muerte
WIP : Wildwest_Abby

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Post by shLep » Mon May 03, 2010 7:49 pm

I agree, all of the objectives are tough to complete, especially if its a small number of players per team.
Maybe making a few destructible objectives Secondary would fix this (i.e. not mandatory). I do like the idea of blowing up multiple buildings, and in larger games it is certainly do-able.

There IS a forward spawn point for allies, but due to the current spawn locations and long Cowboys respawn times, the map is favored to Bandits i think.
So maybe move the Cowboys further into the map upon initial spawn, and also lower the respawn time.

Also making the forward spawning flag permanently Cowboys after 30 seconds would probably be a good idea.

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Post by Ringo » Mon May 03, 2010 9:34 pm

shLep wrote:I agree, all of the objectives are tough to complete, especially if its a small number of players per team.
Maybe making a few destructible objectives Secondary would fix this (i.e. not mandatory). I do like the idea of blowing up multiple buildings, and in larger games it is certainly do-able.

There IS a forward spawn point for allies, but due to the current spawn locations and long Cowboys respawn times, the map is favored to Bandits i think.
So maybe move the Cowboys further into the map upon initial spawn, and also lower the respawn time.

Also making the forward spawning flag permanently Cowboys after 30 seconds would probably be a good idea.
unlike ET ure limited to 6 objectives though ..
WIP : Wildwest ET
WIP : Wildwest_Radar
WIP : Wildwest_Sanmiguel
WIP : Wildwest_Yuma
WIP : Wildwest Jailbreak
WIP : Wildwest_Muerte
WIP : Wildwest_Abby

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Post by shLep » Thu May 06, 2010 5:27 pm

I dont understand what you mean? Im talking about making a few of the existing objectives secondary (non-essential).
And there is already a forward spawn flag in the sheriffs building.

Im not adding any more objectives...

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Post by Ringo » Sat May 08, 2010 6:49 pm

shLep wrote:I dont understand what you mean? Im talking about making a few of the existing objectives secondary (non-essential).
And there is already a forward spawn flag in the sheriffs building.

Im not adding any more objectives...
thats what i mean :P
WIP : Wildwest ET
WIP : Wildwest_Radar
WIP : Wildwest_Sanmiguel
WIP : Wildwest_Yuma
WIP : Wildwest Jailbreak
WIP : Wildwest_Muerte
WIP : Wildwest_Abby

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